Let's Talk Villains

[Olorae]

As many of you know, the Echoes are a dark RP clan. In that aspect, I am always trying to bring you more information on playing the dark characters, and even playing villains if you are so inclined.

I found this on a group that I frequent, and thought that it was a rather nice read and asked if I may present it here for you folks to read.

Without further ado, I give you:

Let's Talk Villains
by Mister86

Villains. A lot of us love the bastards. Even those that don't, tend to realize their necessity to good game or story. They're the drive, the impetus for the protagonist in almost all cases. They get to do all the nasty stuff and get away with it for the most part(at least until the climax at least). In the end, a good villain can make a good story or hero great. Just look at Batman and James Bond.

I tend to see a little detail that a lot of RP villains lack. That's the sympathy factor. See, look at a lot of great villains. Most of them have something that the audience, the reader, the players can agree with. They have a hook or failing that's easy to empathize with, though their tactics, methods, and the lengths they will go to tend to be what makes them a villain. Look at the Corleone family in The Godfather. They are the protagonists, but it's impossible to consider them good guys in the whole scheme of things. They're criminals and murderers. However, their belief in family, and protecting that by any means necessary(even to the point of going against society at large) is something that a lot of people can look at and nod their heads, if just for a moment.

Another example is Auric Goldfinger. Sure, on the surface, his plan to irradiate the gold depository of Fort Knox just looks generic supervillainy, but the kicker, the thing that gets the head nodding, is his speech to the fellow crime lords. He's not simply doing it for the fact it will make his gold all the more expensive(though it's a big perk I'm sure), he's doing it because he wants recognition. He wants to do the biggest crime in the history of the world. His ego, and his aim make this a dastardly deed, but what one of us can honestly say that it wouldn't be nice to be remembered for something? As I said, it's an acceptable dream, just poorly aimed and way overboard that makes it a villain and not a hero.

Now here is where I come in to RPs. I've seen far more than my share of villains in my gaming days. They all tend to suffer from the same flaw, this lack of sympathy. The majority seem little more than a d*ck with the volume turned up to eleven as it were. Villainous things are done(bombing, shooting, holding the world hostage with giant laser beams, monologues), but in the end, they ring hollow. Because the main motivator isn't some noble goal, isn't something the people can look at and see the point of, it's just villainy for the sake of villainy.

People have motivation, it's always good to get that across when it comes to the villains. Especially with the villains. Doesn't matter how smooth, bad ass, ruthless, cruel, vindictive, or what have you a villain is, if they're just doing it to do it, it can get boring fast.

One more thing. The boredom based villain can be interesting(villains literally doing it because they just want to/have nothing better to do), but they really shouldn't happen as often, or at least played better than most of the one's I've seen.

[drakkos]

I LOVE villains.

And as bloodthirsty as some have claimed Persianna to be--I suspect Currin Hawkins will be rather off the chart.

Persi actually killed her step brother while carrying out wartag assignments and walked away from being a nuking assassin for awhile.
She is not related to anyone and her back-story is rather pristine. If any of you want to include a seriously nasty attitude in a SH in your stories drop me a note. She has returned to assassinations because she knows nothing else but struggles daily to find a reason to live on. Persi is not tagged in any clan since graduating from Echoes academy.

As for Currin. He is indistinct at present with no back story. He will be totally without qualms or conscience as he develops. I would guess he will end up tagged in Revenant (possibly BR2) and will also be available to story lines that call for someone to be an absolute remorseless killer. Where persi is apathatic--Currin will more likely be nearly psychotic. I am thinking the only occupation that would fit him is "road agent" (highway robber). One who leaves no witnesses alive. Currin sees himself destined to be the greatest Road Agent in the history of Aden--one they will write ballads and stories about.

Drakkos may be "dark" but these two are more truly EVIL as it's recognized. Persianna because she just doesn't care and Currin because he has no moral compass to suggest he should be otherwise.

Villains (true villans) are good!

[spudnik]

Spud just loves to ORC SMASH with speed for the moment.

i have some ideas and have fleshed out a bit of background that some of you may find all too real. i will post a warning when i post his next story (fistful of adenas)

[rylarin]

As a character, Rylarin doesn't exactly fit the bill for a "villain" so much as a "henchman." He doesn't commit evil deeds just for the hell of it, but rather because to him, those deeds are the only option.

As a hypothetical, if faced with a dying opponent begging for mercy, most "evil for the heck of it" villains would cackle and say something before finishing them off, calling them "weak" afterwards or some such, just because they can. Rylarin would simply step up and wordlessly execute them, then move on to the next challenge without a second thought. No pre-kill quip, no gloating, no feeling of victory, just another number. As a character, Rylarin is more comparable to Chigurh from "No Country for Old Men" than to someone like Darth Vader.

I went with this type of evil because it's always intrigued me as both the most redeemable evil and, at the same time, the least. It means that a character isn't a megalomaniac who delights in the suffering of others, he's simply a warrior who doesn't see his opponents/targets as living beings, but rather as objects to be destroyed out of necessity - and who has extended a portion of this view onto virtually every living being. That, to me, is what makes Rylarin evil.

[Tazhael]

Interesting post, and pretty old even ...

Anyways I find it quite useful as it gives you something to think about being "evil". I will use this as a guide-line for Tazhael when/if she becomes "evil".

Currently Tazhael is pretty much neutral character, as she doesn't do evil acts if they are not any value to her. I think it's better to describe Tazhael in a way they describe Chaotic Neutral in D&D, and it would be following:

Chaotic Neutral is called the "Anarchist" or "Free Spirit" alignment. A character of this alignment is an individualist who follows his or her own heart, shirks rules and traditions. They typically act out of self-interest, but do not enjoy seeing others suffer. Many adventurers are of this alignment.

An unusual subset of Chaotic Neutral is "strongly Chaotic Neutral", describing a character who behaves chaotically to the point of appearing insane. Characters of this type may regularly change their appearance and attitudes for the sake of change, and intentionally disrupt organizations for the sole reason of disrupting a Lawful construct.

So in general Taz is selfish or even self-centered person, who mostly takes act if helps her to achieve something. But this doesn't mean she can't change. I like to keep my character alive and evolving, which means that anykind of interaction with other players will affect her in a way or another. I just need to find more time to RP^^

[Jhaelle]

Jhaelle has a good heart, really. But you only get to see it if you're a friend or ally... Everyone else, well, they're screwed. She subscribes to the Evil Overlord rules. www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html Oh, and she loves smashing uglies with her axe,even breaking into song while doing so. Ask Aenya, it was funny stuffs!

[Allana]

Resurrecting this old thread, I know, but I found a really interesting quote that really seemed to be good for concepts of the villain. (Also promoting this thread to sticky, because I think its important to the clan's concept)

Mohandas K. Gandhi:

The Roots of Violence:
Wealth without work,
Pleasure without conscience,
Knowledge without character,
Commerce without morality,
Science without humanity,
Worship without sacrifice,
Politics without principles.

[khanna]

interesting. I have a few ideas for Khanna although the first few parts of her story will be kinda her exploring, but i expect to write in some villany. I'm still not sure where i wanna take her though. I'd ask for ideas, but I don't have much written about her and those ideas wouldn't be my own, which won't make it as fun for everyone else during RP. the more i write of her the more I'll get ideas. It's just hard being in a Sci Fi type mmo to switching to a fantasy type. I'm not as able to get as many ideas, but that my be my lack of knowledge of game lore.

[GriTorian]

I miss being a villian!

[The Thorn]

Allow me to make a rather obvious comment.

Villians make roleplay exciting.

But villiany, like evil, is subjective. It is almost entirely dependent on the point of view. Clearly, to Templar of Einhasad (may they RIP)- stanch followers of Shilen are evil by nature and the ultimate viallain. Regardless if they had never done more than proclaim their loyalty to the Mother. And by this same reason, Templars are/were Villians to the Cult of Shilen.

So let me put it another way- as I am sure this will arrouse speculation and discussion and hells forbid "debate".

Every good role play group needs an enemy/arch rival.

So where have all the rivals gone? Where are the Templars? The self righteous Light Elves? The fanatical Humans bent on keeping Shilen in the Seal or Elevating Gran Kain as Deus Dominium?

Has the world of Elmoreden truly gone over to the "dark" side?

[spudnik]

well, if i may take a moment to give you some background - the "light side" (ET etc) rarely (i never saw any) played out their battles with the "dark side" and much of our conflict went so far out of character it became less about Light and Dark and more about winning a war.

roleplaying a light side really has not been fortuitous on many fronts.

they (ET) got quite high (comparably) and tried to wriggle out of being "roleplayers" and more about "PVPers" and tried making an impact on Lionna as a political entity. it became quite clear however that they were no such entity and being caught forever with the name of Roleplayer they were beaten by the Ugly Stick known as B0SS.

i never got to see any roleplay that in any form depicted the fight of Light vs Dark, so on one side (my side, clearly nobody else's) youve got a clan that has chosen a "side" but hasnt engaged the other side.

Echoes has had many a clan-wide drama in its recent history. the coup to overthrow Olorae, the affairs of the PhenixKnights (no there was no "o" ) or whatever their damn name was.

i'd debate the point the roleplay groups need a villain. roleplay just needs circumstances. thats about all. people bring their characters to the circumstance (pve, war, whatever) and the drama of the scene unfurls the roleplay.

clan vs clan roleplay (not that ive ever seen it) would need villains and lightbringers, yes. this i agree with.

[Allana]

In theory, I agree with Thorn, the ideal setting would have two sides, good and evil, constantly struggling against each other to further their own ends and goals. Roleplay thrives on conflict and the good versus evil has a plethora of opportunities for conflict. The biggest issues come when people fail to keep these conflicts at the character level and instead take offenses, slights or attacks against their characters as personal attacks out of character. If every player would maintain a common separation between their own pride and their character's endeavors it would make for a great deal less drama and promote interaction. In practice however this does not happen, as someone inevitably fails to maintain the balance and makes it personal, or fails to keep OOC knowledge separate from IC knowledge, leading to OOC arguments which in no way promote an RP environment. It is these petty conflicts between the players not the characters that destroy the concept of light versus dark RP.

Another factor that I've seen contribute to the failing of the Good VS Evil Rp is a laughable concept that some of the "goodies" in MMORPGs tend to adopt. This is the contrived concept that any and all evils exist to lose to them. Perhaps this is due to the tendancy of the science fiction fantasy novels to promote the side of the "light." Again and again good triumphs over the "bad guy" its seen in so many bestselling authors Terry Goodkind, David Eddings, and Terry Brooks I can think of right off the bat. As a player of many neutral and evil characters I can say, it's not our JOB to lose to them. It can be fun to lose if the RP is done properly, but to expect the evils to roll over just because you play a paladin is absurd.

Clan vs Clan roleplay could, theoretically, also be accomplished between two evil clans, two good clans, two neutral clans, or any combination of alignments. Two parties can maintain very similar concepts and yet have enormous rivalries. Followers of Shilen for instance clashing with those of Gran Kain. Both could be considered evil, but they are not necessarily friendly or allied. A paladin who believes the temple wrong in one aspect could break off and lead a holy rebellion, while another paladin takes the side of the church thus splitting the good forces into two opposing sides. Both believe their cause just and right, and neither is evil. While scenarios such as this are less common, there is still room for plenty of conflict to fuel RP.

[khanna]

Hm, interesting. I was actually thinking of creating a "goodly" character of some type to interact with EOD (he or she will be untagged of course) to help maybe craft some kind of rivalry, when I am able to comeback. Let me know if anyone would want to maybe do the same and possibly help with an RP story for in game. we'll trade IM or PM and get some brain storming done.

[zethrodraithius]

This bodes my interest. I might go the way of villainy with some of my characters, Time will tell.